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Terlingua vandalism

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Offline marufo

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2017, 09:59:46 AM »
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It's all about entertaining educating tourists (the dinosaur exhibit) which is the true core mission of the NPS.

FTFY

Quote
The exhibit was projected to cost $350,000 to $400,000 in a 2013 article. The actual cost was reported to be $1.4 million in a January 2017 article. Just a 300% to 400% overrun. Don't be shocked when yet another entrance fee hike is thrust upon the public.

The Big Bend Conservancy has raised over $1.5 million for this exhibit renovation, including $300,000 from the National Park Service Centennial Cost Share Challenge. Major donors to the exhibit include the M.S. Doss Foundation, the Rhodes Charitable Fund, the Brown Foundation Inc., the Meta Alice Keith Bratten Foundation, the Amon Carter Foundation, the Abell-Hanger Foundation, the Permian Basin Foundation, and holders of the Big Bend license plate.

That too.

Check this out: http://fossildiscoveryexhibit.com/

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Offline Jimbow

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2017, 10:24:35 AM »
I guess fund raising for a gravel road and bear box is harder.



The views expressed may not be mine in five minutes.

Everything is in walking distance if you have enough time.

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Offline iCe

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #47 on: February 26, 2017, 11:38:35 AM »

I really dislike this format. Face to face we would agree.


 :icon_lol: I know... it's just a conversation. It's hard to converse with a keyboard


No doubt... promoting is the Catch-22... besides that... it's too late now... there's no way to put it back




I didn't mean to suggest these things are not worth preserving. They should be preserved somewhere. Is Costolon preserved or repurposed? Does it make sense to preserve these man made things then not promote them and encourage visitors?

I do not think visitors swinging by to view displays and curio shops are responsible for used tp and empty water jugs in the bear boxes. Those people want soap and sanitizer. Optimistically the pigs are backcountry visitors on their journey to better ethics. Hopefully somewhere, and sometime soon, they develop better habits. Sadly I'm not that optimistic and will ruefully raise a glass to your fricking pigs comment.

The last of these thoughts,  the best chance of the mines and ranches to be preserved was for their economic usefulness to have survived. They sold their souls to the NPS.



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Offline iCe

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #48 on: February 26, 2017, 11:47:19 AM »
This is our second trip to Maine. My first was when I had just spent three months living on South Padre. The rugged beaches and cold Atlantic waters really hit a spot. I guess I just don't like refined.

I'm studying the maps and looking to fit a couple backcountry nights in while my wife has our oldest and grandson to hang with.

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i need to do one of those second trip to Maine things. I love that place. When I was there, every day I would plan a trip to Acadia and then see something on the map that was closer so off I would go. No disappointments ever. I thought it was funny that none of the locals thought very much of lobster rolls. They said it screwed up a perfectly good lobster  :icon_smile: All around Friendship there are little mom and pop stores with tin roofs and wooden floors and a deli at the back. The tides would move 10-15 feet  :eusa_shifty: My first day there I walked down to the water and the tide was in, the boats and lobster pot floats were dancing around. The next time I walked down it was low tide and the water was waaaaay out there. Boats were laying on their side in some places. The lobster pots were still in the water  :icon_smile:


Stuff like this will grab my attention and hold it for a while...


Pemaquid Point Light





Marshall Point Light (I got a little heavy handed with the post processing of this one)



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Offline badknees

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #49 on: February 26, 2017, 11:53:49 AM »
IMO, the $1.5M exhibit is shameful. I guess it looks better in a photo-op than some more practical and cost efficient projects.
Not all those who wander are lost.
– J.R.R. Tolkien

Through the Mirror
http://mirrormagic.com

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2017, 01:07:36 PM »
Someday I want to have a beer with Jimbow and iCe. I don't necessarily want to participate in the conversation, I just want to sit back and enjoy the civilized virtuosity of it.

As far as NPS sausage goes, I suspect Marufo has come closest to describing the messy process of how it's actually made:


Quote
Considering that the NPS early-on destroyed many of the historic ranch buildings in the park (and likely some mining ones), their preservation record is sketchy at best. The agency removed those things that did not fit their definition of worth, or their image of what should be preserved.

Would they do it differently today? Maybe, maybe not.

I'm sure they would. The National Park idea is only 100 years old and there has definitely been a learning curve. Fifty years ago it was not realized that suppressing all fires would only lead to more destructive ones. Fifty years ago the NPS was still pushing flaming logs off the waterfalls in Yosemite for the spectacle and putting up bleachers in Yellowstone so visitors could watch the bears raid the garbage cans. But what I think people who are inclined to think of the NPS as "them" don't adequately realize is the degree to which NPS policies have always reflected what the public wanted from their National Parks at the time.

If you're not familiar with this, it is a great introduction to how NPS management has tried to meet the varied and changing expectations of what Big Bend National Park "should be." You're welcome to disagree with some NPS decisions (I certainly do) but if you think those decisions are capricious or not taken seriously, you should read this: https://www.nps.gov/bibe/learn/historyculture/adhi.htm

Quotes from that administrative history re the destruction of historical structures:

Quote
Superintendents and their staffs from Ross Maxwell
in the 1940s to Jose Cisneros in the 1990s had to reconcile visitor expectations, park needs,
budget constraints, changes in scientific research, and NPS policy directives that shifted from the
promotion of scenery to the championing of ecology to the rehabilitation of cultural landscapes.

Quote
Recreation, especially for a war-weary nation just embarking upon
the “baby boom” of the 1950s and early 1960s, dictated strategies for recreation rather than
science, and the removal of “eyesores” and “hazards” from parks like Big Bend.

Quote
Curtis Schaafsma remembered in particular
the time that the famed nature photographer Ansel Adams visited Big Bend (1947), with Harold
Schaafsma serving as his personal guide. “Harold shared that late 1940s romantic vision of
protecting pristine nature,” said his son five decades later; a perspective that Adams promoted in
books, calendars, and brochures about the wonders of the national parks.
In order to fulfill this vision, the park service and superintendent Maxwell could not
devote much attention to scientific research. Instead, they would remove old structures from the
landscape that marred the beauty and/or starkness that evoked such a vision of serenity and
escape. In 1951, architect Kenneth Saunders advised NPS director Conrad Wirth that the park
service could not afford the cost of rehabilitation of the many facilities at parks like Big Bend that
the NPS had inherited. Reductions in the budget for park maintenance during the Korean conflict
further convinced Saunders of the merits of this policy. Thus Maxwell set out to remove such
historic sites as Glenn Springs, and the famed bathhouses at Hot Springs. The park’s roads and
trails crew, recalled longtime maintenance worker Francisco Grano, would be sent out to remove
these buildings. “Waddy Burnham’s house [at Government Spring] was very nice,” said Grano,
“but it was torn down.” Local ranchers like Hallie Stillwell long remembered with bitterness this
destruction of their memories. Yet Reece Sholley McNatt, widow of chief ranger George
Sholley, would recall in 1996 that “the Hot Springs bath house had terrible sanitation.” Its
proprietor, Maggie Smith, “didn’t have a permit,” said McNatt, “and didn’t keep the tubs clean.”
Thus “the old buildings had to be destroyed, and Maggie was crosswise with the NPS over this
and other issues.”
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline Jimbow

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2017, 06:58:00 PM »
iCe I was lol at the lobster roll comment. I knew it was something they perpetrated on tourists,  but I must have had five.

My favorite lobster dinner was buying one at a gas station near the park. Foil lined cardboard box with a 4 pound lobster,  potatoes,  etc for like $15. We sat at an old picnic table with butter dripping down our chins.

We also took a sail on a small ketch who ran a lobster line. Old school. 

And of course I needed to stop in Kennebunkport. Seeing casual pictures of George Bush having coffee or whatever in a local restaurant was cool.



The views expressed may not be mine in five minutes.

Everything is in walking distance if you have enough time.

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Offline Jimbow

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2017, 06:59:26 PM »
IMO, the $1.5M exhibit is shameful. I guess it looks better in a photo-op than some more practical and cost efficient projects.
No one donates to practical and cost effective projects. Sad. But working for the Boy Scouts taught me about monuments and sizzle.

The views expressed may not be mine in five minutes.

Everything is in walking distance if you have enough time.

*

Offline Jimbow

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2017, 07:01:13 PM »
Someday I want to have a beer with Jimbow and iCe. I don't necessarily want to participate in the conversation, I just want to sit back and enjoy the civilized virtuosity of it.

As far as NPS sausage goes, I suspect Marufo has come closest to describing the messy process of how it's actually made:


Quote
Considering that the NPS early-on destroyed many of the historic ranch buildings in the park (and likely some mining ones), their preservation record is sketchy at best. The agency removed those things that did not fit their definition of worth, or their image of what should be preserved.

Would they do it differently today? Maybe, maybe not.

I'm sure they would. The National Park idea is only 100 years old and there has definitely been a learning curve. Fifty years ago it was not realized that suppressing all fires would only lead to more destructive ones. Fifty years ago the NPS was still pushing flaming logs off the waterfalls in Yosemite for the spectacle and putting up bleachers in Yellowstone so visitors could watch the bears raid the garbage cans. But what I think people who are inclined to think of the NPS as "them" don't adequately realize is the degree to which NPS policies have always reflected what the public wanted from their National Parks at the time.

If you're not familiar with this, it is a great introduction to how NPS management has tried to meet the varied and changing expectations of what Big Bend National Park "should be." You're welcome to disagree with some NPS decisions (I certainly do) but if you think those decisions are capricious or not taken seriously, you should read this: https://www.nps.gov/bibe/learn/historyculture/adhi.htm

Quotes from that administrative history re the destruction of historical structures:

Quote
Superintendents and their staffs from Ross Maxwell
in the 1940s to Jose Cisneros in the 1990s had to reconcile visitor expectations, park needs,
budget constraints, changes in scientific research, and NPS policy directives that shifted from the
promotion of scenery to the championing of ecology to the rehabilitation of cultural landscapes.

Quote
Recreation, especially for a war-weary nation just embarking upon
the “baby boom” of the 1950s and early 1960s, dictated strategies for recreation rather than
science, and the removal of “eyesores” and “hazards” from parks like Big Bend.

Quote
Curtis Schaafsma remembered in particular
the time that the famed nature photographer Ansel Adams visited Big Bend (1947), with Harold
Schaafsma serving as his personal guide. “Harold shared that late 1940s romantic vision of
protecting pristine nature,” said his son five decades later; a perspective that Adams promoted in
books, calendars, and brochures about the wonders of the national parks.
In order to fulfill this vision, the park service and superintendent Maxwell could not
devote much attention to scientific research. Instead, they would remove old structures from the
landscape that marred the beauty and/or starkness that evoked such a vision of serenity and
escape. In 1951, architect Kenneth Saunders advised NPS director Conrad Wirth that the park
service could not afford the cost of rehabilitation of the many facilities at parks like Big Bend that
the NPS had inherited. Reductions in the budget for park maintenance during the Korean conflict
further convinced Saunders of the merits of this policy. Thus Maxwell set out to remove such
historic sites as Glenn Springs, and the famed bathhouses at Hot Springs. The park’s roads and
trails crew, recalled longtime maintenance worker Francisco Grano, would be sent out to remove
these buildings. “Waddy Burnham’s house [at Government Spring] was very nice,” said Grano,
“but it was torn down.” Local ranchers like Hallie Stillwell long remembered with bitterness this
destruction of their memories. Yet Reece Sholley McNatt, widow of chief ranger George
Sholley, would recall in 1996 that “the Hot Springs bath house had terrible sanitation.” Its
proprietor, Maggie Smith, “didn’t have a permit,” said McNatt, “and didn’t keep the tubs clean.”
Thus “the old buildings had to be destroyed, and Maggie was crosswise with the NPS over this
and other issues.”
I'll travel anywhere in Texas and buy the beer.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Big Bend Chat mobile app

Everything is in walking distance if you have enough time.

*

Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2017, 07:40:37 PM »
I see a stein in our future.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline Jimbow

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2017, 08:21:24 PM »
Or two.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Big Bend Chat mobile app

Everything is in walking distance if you have enough time.

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Offline iCe

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2017, 08:49:50 PM »
Sounds like the makings of a plan.

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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  • Golden Eagle
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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2017, 09:16:22 PM »
Surely we'll all be in the Bend at the same time some time.  Stay alert.   :great:
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline dprather

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2017, 09:55:23 PM »
Hey - I've been to Maine too!!!!
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline Jimbow

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Re: Terlingua vandalism
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2017, 03:27:17 AM »
I'm in San Antonio and always willing to drive for a cold beer and great conversation with people who know more than I do about something I'm keenly interested in.

The views expressed may not be mine in five minutes.

Everything is in walking distance if you have enough time.

 


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