Big Bend Chat

Big Bend Community => What's Happening => Topic started by: doodle228 on February 22, 2006, 04:25:45 PM

Title: "Cooper Store" in Persimmon Gap (1945-1949)
Post by: doodle228 on February 22, 2006, 04:25:45 PM
I have a picture that I would like to share with everyone of the Cooper Store and I have emailed David to tell me how to upload it to this web site. Previously the "Cooper Store" was further down the road toward the basin about 10 miles and it was destroyed after the Park Service purchased the land.  We found some of it, where it had been shoved a mile or two away in a ravine and bulldozed over , I guess this was done when they were clearing the land.  I also have a picture of it when I was about 3 years old.  We called it the "Old Rock Store"
Title: "Cooper Store" in Persimmon Gap (1945-1949)
Post by: Casa Grande on February 22, 2006, 05:30:18 PM
hey doodle,

i've recently posted a message regarding this issue under the Post Pic forum....check it out.....

thanks,
Title: Re: "Cooper Store" in Persimmon Gap (1945-1949)
Post by: Lemming_of_the_BDA on February 22, 2006, 06:05:51 PM
Quote from: "doodle228"
Previously the "Cooper Store" was further down the road toward the basin about 10 miles and it was destroyed after the Park Service purchased the land.  We found some of it, where it had been shoved a mile or two away in a ravine and bulldozed over , I guess this was done when they were clearing the land.  

Alright Bobcat, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find it.

Snakes and hidden stuff seem to be your specialty. :D
Title: Re: "Cooper Store" in Persimmon Gap (1945-1949)
Post by: Bobcat on February 22, 2006, 07:22:28 PM
Quote from: "Lemming_of_the_BDA"
Quote from: "doodle228"
Previously the "Cooper Store" was further down the road toward the basin about 10 miles and it was destroyed after the Park Service purchased the land.  We found some of it, where it had been shoved a mile or two away in a ravine and bulldozed over , I guess this was done when they were clearing the land.  

Alright Bobcat, your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to find it.

Snakes and hidden stuff seem to be your specialty. :D

I accept the aforementioned mission.  I'll look for it in late March.  There will be photos.  Destroy this tape :!:   Agent 0013
Title: Marble...
Post by: SHANEA on February 22, 2006, 10:46:06 PM
Plant the marble there.
Title: Re: Marble...
Post by: Bobcat on February 23, 2006, 07:32:43 AM
Quote from: "SHANEA"
Plant the marble there.

Let's see.  How to indicate the coordinates of the "Magic Marble" without letting every Tom, Dick and Marry know?  I know what I'll do :idea:
Title: "Cooper Store" in Persimmon Gap (1945-1949)
Post by: WL2 on March 31, 2006, 11:18:35 AM
There is a benchmark M-747 listed by th NGS as shown below.  It says it is located at the old store which was torn down.  So I am assuming the coordinated of the store are the same as benchmark M-747 based on the description of how to locate M-747.  Remember these location descriptions were used before GPS.

National Geodetic Survey

DESIGNATION -  M 747
PID         -  BA0039
STATE/COUNTY-  TX/BREWSTER
USGS QUAD   -  BONE SPRING (1971)

NAD 83(1986)-  29 36 45.     (N)    103 08 35.

DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1958 IN COOPERS STORE.
46.5 FEET SOUTH OF THE FORMER LOCATION OF M 747 (IN THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF COOPERS STORE), 54.5 FEET NORTHEAST OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE MAIN PARK ROAD, AND SOUTHWEST OF A WOODEN STAKE AT THE OLD FOUNDATION CORNER.  A NATIONAL PARK SERVICE STANDARD BRASS CAP, SET IN THE TOP OF A 6- BY 7-INCH CONCRETE BLOCK 4 INCHES HIGH.  NOTE-- THE STORE WAS TORN DOWN.
Title: Re: "Cooper Store" in Persimmon Gap (1945-1949)
Post by: Chupacabra on March 31, 2006, 09:08:56 PM
Quote from: "doodle228"
I have a picture that I would like to share with everyone of the Cooper Store and I have emailed David to tell me how to upload it to this web site. Previously the "Cooper Store" was further down the road toward the basin about 10 miles and it was destroyed after the Park Service purchased the land.  We found some of it, where it had been shoved a mile or two away in a ravine and bulldozed over , I guess this was done when they were clearing the land.  I also have a picture of it when I was about 3 years old.  We called it the "Old Rock Store"

Sounds like Doodle's an old Big Bend hand. Woulda been nice to see the picture. If he's anything like me he couldn't get the picture posted if you gave him instructions and held a gun to his head. I guess we'll never see it.
Title: Re: "Cooper Store" in Persimmon Gap (1945-1949)
Post by: RichardM on March 31, 2006, 09:57:26 PM
Quote from: Chupacabra
Quote from: doodle228
I have a picture that I would like to share with everyone of the Cooper Store and I have emailed David to tell me how to upload it to this web site. Previously the "Cooper Store" was further down the road toward the basin about 10 miles and it was destroyed after the Park Service purchased the land.  We found some of it, where it had been shoved a mile or two away in a ravine and bulldozed over , I guess this was done when they were clearing the land.  I also have a picture of it when I was about 3 years old.  We called it the "Old Rock Store"
Sounds like Doodle's an old Big Bend hand. Woulda been nice to see the picture. If he's anything like me he couldn't get the picture posted if you gave him instructions and held a gun to his head. I guess we'll never see it.
Ya just gotta know where to look:
http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/big-bend-photographs/coopers-store-persimmon-gap-old-rock-store-t391.0.html (http://www.bigbendchat.com/portal/forum/big-bend-photographs/coopers-store-persimmon-gap-old-rock-store-t391.0.html)

Check out the "Search" feature below the ad bar.  Highly useful, as we've had a ton of posts since David put this board online last December.  :icon_biggrin:
Title: "Cooper Store" in Persimmon Gap (1945-1949)
Post by: Chupacabra on March 31, 2006, 11:28:35 PM
Ah, there it is. Good on ya.
Title: I'm confused
Post by: Lemming_of_the_BDA on April 01, 2006, 12:28:27 PM
Quote from: "WL2"
There is a benchmark M-747 listed by th NGS as shown below.  It says it is located at the old store which was torn down.  So I am assuming the coordinated of the store are the same as benchmark M-747 based on the description of how to locate M-747.  Remember these location descriptions were used before GPS.

National Geodetic Survey

DESIGNATION -  M 747
PID         -  BA0039
STATE/COUNTY-  TX/BREWSTER
USGS QUAD   -  BONE SPRING (1971)

NAD 83(1986)-  29 36 45.     (N)    103 08 35.

DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1958 IN COOPERS STORE.
46.5 FEET SOUTH OF THE FORMER LOCATION OF M 747 (IN THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF COOPERS STORE), 54.5 FEET NORTHEAST OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE MAIN PARK ROAD, AND SOUTHWEST OF A WOODEN STAKE AT THE OLD FOUNDATION CORNER.  A NATIONAL PARK SERVICE STANDARD BRASS CAP, SET IN THE TOP OF A 6- BY 7-INCH CONCRETE BLOCK 4 INCHES HIGH.  NOTE-- THE STORE WAS TORN DOWN.


This is the kind of stuff I love about the park, and the kind of stuff that drives me crazy.

Here  (http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_county.prl) is the NGS data sheet for M747. It says the mark is of "QUESTIONABLE OR UNKNOWN STABILITY". It also says the mark was in the SE corner of Cooper's Store. Furthermore, it says the mark couldn't be located in 1958 or 2001. Was the mark bulldozed along with the store?

Another thing: Here  (http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=29.3645&lon=-103.0835&s=100&size=l&symshow=n&u=1&layer=DRG25) is the topo map for the lat/lon listed in the data sheet. The sheet clearly says this marker is in the Bone Springs quad, yet the map is the Roy's Peak quad. Is this because topozone uses NAD27 and the UGS is NAD83?

There doesn't seem to be enough info to locate M747, assuming it's still extant.
Title: "Cooper Store" in Persimmon Gap (1945-1949)
Post by: Jim on April 01, 2006, 01:21:27 PM
When I converted the Lat/Long to decimal & re-entered the TopoZone URL, the marker comes up right next to the park road at the Terlingua Ranch Road turnoff (about 1/2 mile south of the Dog Canyon road, on the opposite side).  And there is a "BM" indicated on the map as well.

(http://home.swbell.net/bishopjp/BONESPRG.jpg)
Title: "Cooper Store" in Persimmon Gap (1945-1949)
Post by: Lemming_of_the_BDA on April 01, 2006, 02:01:35 PM
#-o