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Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region

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Offline dprather

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 11:14:03 AM »
News is breaking about a sure-enough shootout that killed a Border patrol agent and badly wounded another in the Big Bend area.  Is this the eventuality that we all feared, the one about border violence finally reaching our desiccated Shangri-La, or is this another kind of shootout?

Frankly, I trust my BBC buddies who live out there far more than I trust the media.  I would appreciate hearing from you guys about this.

So far the only place I've seen mention of "gunfight" or "shootout" is in your post. Care to share your source? Nothing on BBC.com, or Fox News.

The first reports I read mentioned a shooting, one dead, and one injured.  I certainly did not mean to overstate.
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Offline possum

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2017, 06:42:11 PM »
From the Associated Press

http://www.newswest9.com/story/36886232/the-latest-officials-say-border-agent-was-killed-in-attack

The Latest: CBP official says attack reports 'speculation'
Monday, November 20th 2017, 9:10 am CST
Monday, November 20th 2017, 6:19 pm CST
By The Associated Press

DALLAS (AP) - The Latest on the death in Texas of a U.S. Customs and Border Protection agent (all times local):

6:15 p.m.

A U.S. border patrol official says unconfirmed reports that an agent who died and another who was injured were attacked are "speculation" as of Monday evening.

U.S. Customs and Border Patrol official Rush Carter says all the agency can confirm is that the two agents were injured and that a joint investigation with the FBI will hopefully determine how that happened.

Carter, a supervisor for the CBP region where 36-year-old Rogelio Martinez died, emphasized that the investigation is ongoing.

Chris Cabrera, a spokesman for a border patrol agents union, said Monday that agents who responded to the scene Sunday described it as "grisly" and said the dead agent and his partner had "extensive injuries" from being struck with a rock or rocks.

4:10 p.m.

A union official says a U.S. border agent who died while on patrol in West Texas appears to have been struck in the head with a rock or rocks.

Chris Cabrera, a spokesman for the National Border Patrol Council, said Monday that U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents who responded to the scene Sunday described it as "grisly" and said the dead agent, 36-year-old Rogelio Martinez, and his partner had "extensive injuries."

A Border Patrol spokesman said Martinez died at a hospital and that his partner, whose name hasn't been released, was seriously injured.

It has been more than 24 hours, yet there hasn't been an official explanation of what happened. Several elected officials have said the agents were attacked, including President Donald Trump, who renewed his call for a border wall between the U.S. and Mexico.

The incident or attack happened near Van Horn, which is about 30 miles (48 kilometers) from the Mexico border and about 110 miles (177 kilometers) southeast of El Paso.

12:45 p.m.

Texas is offering a $20,000 reward for information that leads to the arrest and conviction of the person or people who killed a U.S. border agent and injured another.

Gov. Greg Abbott announced the reward in a statement Monday in which he expressed gratitude to U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents.

Agent Rogelio Martinez was killed and his partner was seriously injured Sunday in what elected officials have said was an attack near Van Horn, which is about 30 miles (48 kilometers) from the Mexico border and about 110 miles (177 kilometers) southeast of El Paso. Martinez's partner, whose name hasn't been released, is hospitalized in serious condition.

Investigators haven't released certain details about the case, including what time it happened and whether they're pursuing specific suspects. An FBI spokeswoman did say the agents were not shot.

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Offline mule ears

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2017, 07:09:14 AM »
So here is what seems to be a balanced and non dramatic report on the situation.  Still no details other than probably hit with rocks and probably drug trafficking related.

 I wish everyone would wait to make statements until more facts are known, especially officials like the president but that is not the way people act these days.   :banghead:
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Offline marufo

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2017, 08:58:27 AM »
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Investigators believe a border patrol agent who died in West Texas after suffering extensive injuries to his head and body may have fallen down a 14-foot (4-meter) culvert, and his partner, who radioed for help, has no memory of what happened, according to a U.S. official with knowledge of the investigation.

FBI spokeswoman Jeanette Harper said in a statement Monday that both agents were found late Saturday night in a culvert near Van Horn and that both had traumatic head injuries. Harper said Rogelio Martinez died early Sunday. The FBI is leading the investigation and results of his autopsy are pending.

Another U.S. official, who was briefed on the investigation but is not authorized to speak publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, said Monday that Martinez was found at the bottom of the culvert and that investigators believe he may have fallen. The official said it happened after dark in an area that's known for drug activity and where agents often look for drugs in culverts.

Authorities haven't offered an official explanation of what happened to Martinez and his partner, and a border patrol supervisor said reports that the agents were attacked are "speculation."
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/ap-source-authorities-border-agent-fallen-51293061

Here's an interesting timeline of the statements by officials of the National Border Patrol Council from a website that seems to me to lean, if anything, rightward.
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A Border Patrol agent is dead and another hospitalized following something along the Texas border. Agent Rogelio Martinez was killed Sunday near Van Horn, a town of about two thousand, a few hundred miles east of El Paso. What is known … really isn’t much, and the lack of information is disturbing. The FBI and CBP say Martinez and his partner were responding to “activity” but declined to reveal exactly what that means. They’ve not released a timeline of what happened, something a spokesperson told the San Antonio Express-News would happen today. The FBI does say the agents weren’t shot but that’s it. Nothing else.

The National Border Patrol Council is commenting on what they believe happened but their comments are causing a lot of confusion. Get ready for a bouncing ball, folks, because it’s gonna get interesting.

Here’s what a union spokesperson told ABC-7 in El Paso.

    Union Spokesman Chris Cabrera told ABC-7 Martinez was responding to foot traffic that set off sensors when he came across a group of individuals.

    Cabrera said Martinez called for back up, and when his partner arrived, the agent found Martinez was unconscious with severe head trauma. The partner then called for back up, and when more agents arrived, the partner was also found with severe injuries, Cabrera said.

NBPC President Brandon Judd made similar comments to Breitbart Texas and swore it was another example of why the border needed to be secure.

But then the language from the union started to change and muddy the waters a bit. Here’s the statement they put out Sunday.

    As of this writing, the cause of this tragedy is not being reported as this situation is unfolding and an active investigation is underway. Various local and federal authorities are on scene to assist with the investigation and to search the area for any suspects or witnesses.

Judd also started couching his words when he spoke with more traditional outlets. Here’s part of his talk with Fox News.

    We don’t know exactly what happened because we weren’t there. However, just from agents that were working in the area, reports are saying it was an attack and it would appear to be an ambush.

He gets more hesitant in The Washington Post (emphasis mine).

    “I have been told by several agents that it was a grisly scene, and that his injuries were very extensive,” Judd said Monday in a phone interview with The Washington Post. “We believe he was struck in the head with rocks, or multiple rocks.”..

    “I have not heard (the injured agent) has regained memory of what happened,” Judd said. “So there is a possibility they were together when this happened, but we’re getting a lot of different information from different agents.”

It’s completely possible the initial details into Martinez’s death will indicate a rock attack by people who came across the border. But there’s also the chance the story will keep changing and and potentially reveal a new motive and perpetrator. CBP is preparing for that possibility. Via the Associated Press:

    (A) U.S. border patrol official says so-called reports of an attack were “speculation” as of Monday evening, according to a report from the Associated Press.

    U.S. Customs and Border Patrol official Rush Carter says all the agency can confirm is that the two agents were injured and that a joint investigation with the FBI will hopefully determine how that happened.

Remember, sources originally claimed it was the brother of the Newtown shooter who committed that horrific tragedy before having to issue corrections. There’s still confusion on what actually happened in Las Vegas because law enforcement buggered their timelines up, and a motive is even more elusive. People railed about what happened in Sutherland Springs, and the availability of guns, before it turned out the current laws on the books would have worked if the Air Force hadn’t royally fracked up.

So I’m a little hesitant to place blame on illegal or undocumented or whatever the right term is these days depending on your political alignment immigrants. If Martinez died in an attack then whoever did it is a criminal and will hopefully be caught, and soon. But jumping to conclusions on a tragedy won’t help anyone or anything, especially Martinez’s grieving family. Let’s get a clearer picture and go from there.
https://hotair.com/archives/2017/11/20/conflicting-stories-lack-information-tx-border-patrol-agents-murder/

I think it's worth keeping in mind that the NBPC is a public sector union (to which less than one third of border patrol agents belong). Just like unions for teachers or any other public employees, they have a motivation to paint a dire picture and insist they need more money, more employees, and (often) "the ability to do their jobs without all the red tape" - which frequently means less accountability.
Quote
I wish everyone would wait to make statements until more facts are known, especially officials like the president but that is not the way people act these days.   :banghead:
+1

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Offline presidio

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2017, 11:57:01 AM »
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Investigators believe a border patrol agent who died in West Texas after suffering extensive injuries to his head and body may have fallen down a 14-foot (4-meter) culvert, and his partner, who radioed for help, has no memory of what happened, according to a U.S. official with knowledge of the investigation.
Authorities haven't offered an official explanation of what happened to Martinez and his partner, and a border patrol supervisor said reports that the agents were attacked are "speculation."

Quote
What is known … really isn’t much, and the lack of information is disturbing. The FBI does say the agents weren’t shot but that’s it. Nothing else.

“I have not heard (the injured agent) has regained memory of what happened,” Judd said. “So there is a possibility they were together when this happened, but we’re getting a lot of different information from different agents.”

It’s completely possible the initial details into Martinez’s death will indicate a rock attack by people who came across the border. But there’s also the chance the story will keep changing and and potentially reveal a new motive and perpetrator.

Something is not quite right with this story.

Gut feeling, aided by the JDLR principle: Just Doesn't Look Right.
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2017, 01:10:27 PM »
It doesn't look right in context of the original unconfirmed reports, but there is, in my imagination, a scenario which does look exactly right in view of the few officially confirmed facts we have (as well as the silence of the FBI in this case). I'll keep it imaginary.

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Offline elhombre

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2017, 01:29:55 PM »
WOAI San Antonio radio says it was a car wreck.   

 :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin: 

I laughed and drove home from work with a smile on my face. 

Guess it goes to show you that the only thing you can BELIEVE in is man can't do anything right.  Thank God for his Grace!

How sad it must be for the family of the fallen agent.
For 2 years the Fake News Media, Obama's FBI, CIA & DOJ, and Swamp dwelling Politicians COLLUDED, Illegally Spied,and LIED to America about POTUS in order to overturn an election

All the while demanding censorship and removal of opposition Conservative "hate speech" voices.  Globalists Hate Freedom

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Offline dprather

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2017, 01:56:47 PM »
Remember the old TV show GET SMART and the "dome of silence?"  More and more, the dome of silence is dropping all over "interesting" news stories.

Thoughts for the deceased and the injured, and for their families - whatever the details.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline elhombre

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For 2 years the Fake News Media, Obama's FBI, CIA & DOJ, and Swamp dwelling Politicians COLLUDED, Illegally Spied,and LIED to America about POTUS in order to overturn an election

All the while demanding censorship and removal of opposition Conservative "hate speech" voices.  Globalists Hate Freedom

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Offline presidio

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2017, 02:37:58 PM »
(as well as the silence of the FBI in this case). I'll keep it imaginary.

Indeed, the silence implies something other than what's been "reported" so far.
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline Flash

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2017, 02:47:22 PM »

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Offline mule ears

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2017, 06:00:56 PM »
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Investigators believe a border patrol agent who died in West Texas after suffering extensive injuries to his head and body may have fallen down a 14-foot (4-meter) culvert, and his partner, who radioed for help, has no memory of what happened, according to a U.S. official with knowledge of the investigation.
Authorities haven't offered an official explanation of what happened to Martinez and his partner, and a border patrol supervisor said reports that the agents were attacked are "speculation."

Quote
What is known … really isn’t much, and the lack of information is disturbing. The FBI does say the agents weren’t shot but that’s it. Nothing else.

“I have not heard (the injured agent) has regained memory of what happened,” Judd said. “So there is a possibility they were together when this happened, but we’re getting a lot of different information from different agents.”

It’s completely possible the initial details into Martinez’s death will indicate a rock attack by people who came across the border. But there’s also the chance the story will keep changing and and potentially reveal a new motive and perpetrator.

Something is not quite right with this story.

Gut feeling, aided by the JDLR principle: Just Doesn't Look Right.

Nuff said.   :eusa_snooty:
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Offline Shocky1352

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2017, 09:04:34 PM »
Bogus post title/subject. National Enquirer worthy.

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Offline marufo

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2017, 07:47:44 AM »
FWIW here's the latest local gossip via Facebook (and I emphasize, this is just unverified rumor):
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Brewster County Sheriff Ronnie Dotson this AM in a conversation in the bank in Alpine said the BP incident didn't involve anyone besides the two agents involved.

While playing 'grab ass' as he put it, they fell off a culvert onto rocks below. Agent Martinez's injuries included broken ribs, broken clavicle, and massive trauma to the side of his head. [I assume the other agent had similar injuries consistent with an uncontrolled fall onto the rocks below the culvert]

(I must admit, the "grab ass" sounds just like something Ronnie would say...)

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Offline presidio

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2017, 08:07:34 AM »
FWIW here's the latest local gossip via Facebook (and I emphasize, this is just unverified rumor):
Quote
Brewster County Sheriff Ronnie Dotson this AM in a conversation in the bank in Alpine said the BP incident didn't involve anyone besides the two agents involved.

While playing 'grab ass' as he put it, they fell off a culvert onto rocks below. Agent Martinez's injuries included broken ribs, broken clavicle, and massive trauma to the side of his head. [I assume the other agent had similar injuries consistent with an uncontrolled fall onto the rocks below the culvert]

(I must admit, the "grab ass" sounds just like something Ronnie would say...)

It's still JDLR.

I suspect it's more than grab ass. My initial thought when it first was reported: interpersonal conflict. You don't respond to a purported sensor trip and engage in frivolous behavior while doing so. The continued official silence says there's a lot more to the story than is willing to be admitted.
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

 


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