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Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region

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Offline Homer Wilson

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2017, 09:16:43 AM »
FWIW here's the latest local gossip via Facebook (and I emphasize, this is just unverified rumor):
Quote
Brewster County Sheriff Ronnie Dotson this AM in a conversation in the bank in Alpine said the BP incident didn't involve anyone besides the two agents involved.

While playing 'grab ass' as he put it, they fell off a culvert onto rocks below. Agent Martinez's injuries included broken ribs, broken clavicle, and massive trauma to the side of his head. [I assume the other agent had similar injuries consistent with an uncontrolled fall onto the rocks below the culvert]

(I must admit, the "grab ass" sounds just like something Ronnie would say...)

It's still JDLR.

I suspect it's more than grab ass. My initial thought when it first was reported: interpersonal conflict. You don't respond to a purported sensor trip and engage in frivolous behavior while doing so. The continued official silence says there's a lot more to the story than is willing to be admitted.
Yeah, it is odd for the sheriff to make a statement like that when there has been complete silence from the FBI investigation.

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Offline Txlj

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2017, 01:22:03 PM »
Also, it didn't happen in his county.

Sent from flat land


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Offline dprather

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2017, 01:35:25 PM »
From gunfight (original media reports), to rock-wielding and head-bashing illegals (subsequent report), and all the way to "grab ass" (insider info) is a looooong ways.

The official silence remains deafening.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 08:20:25 PM by dprather »
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline Slimkitty

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2017, 06:17:37 PM »
Coach always warned us about playing grab ass.


Sent from the future.

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Offline Flash

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2017, 08:33:05 AM »
From gunfight (original media reports), to rock-wielding and head-bashing illegals (subsequent report), and all the way to "grab ass" (insider info) is a looooong ways.

The official silence remains deafening.
Perhaps they were pushed, pulled, or tripped? :eusa_think:

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Offline presidio

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #35 on: November 28, 2017, 11:42:41 AM »
From gunfight (original media reports), to rock-wielding and head-bashing illegals (subsequent report), and all the way to "grab ass" (insider info) is a looooong ways.

The official silence remains deafening.
Perhaps they were pushed, pulled, or tripped? :eusa_think:

I predict we will learn it was more than an accident or horsing around, and that it did not involve illegals. To be more specific, there is an undercurrent of workplace violence, or green on green, running through the tightly controlled release of information.

I would prefer to be wrong, but not much else makes sense at this point. No organization is immune from interpersonal conflict that can escalate to violence.

There seems to be no evidence of third parties involved and it beggars belief that both simply tripped, fell and sustained similar injuries, in an area I would expect them to have intimate familiarity as part of their patrol sector. Thus, it smacks of a fight in a convenient location. Firearms and other defensive equipment could not be used as that would be obvious as to perpetrator. However, conversely, I also would expect a victim to respond to any attack with equipment at hand, unless the victim quickly was incapacitated. A very curious situation. It would be very interesting to see a comparison of injury severity between the two. Specifically, is the surviving agent less harmed than the deceased?

Rocks make the perfect foil as BP folks are known to sustain rock throwing attacks; just look at the shielding on their vehicles that operate directly on the border in urban areas. See an example here http://www.usborderpatrol.com/WarWagon.jpg

While the scene surely was trampled by responders, I would expect the fabled trackers of the BP to have scoured the area beyond for evidence of foot traffic to establish whether or not anyone else recently was on site.

The surviving agent says he "doesnt recall what happened and says the last thing he remembers is arriving at work that night." Amnesia that could be real, or not.

About halfway down this page http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/27/us/border-patrol-agent-death-investigation/index.html is a photo of a culvert. If it is the actual location, it appears to be on I-10 or a connecting main road; and not in some isolated area. While the view is limited there is nothing shown that would explain the purported injuries being sustained in a fall.

The JDLR continues unabated.
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline BlindWilly

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Offline presidio

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2017, 12:41:18 PM »
Here's the latest I've heard about the incident:
https://news.vice.com/story/sheriff-says-illegal-aliens-who-killed-a-border-patrol-agent-were-actually-just-a-truck?utm_source=vicenewsfb

JDLR

So much speculation, so few facts released.

The prior descriptions of injuries likely are not consistent with being struck by a vehicle.
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<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline mule ears

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2017, 03:28:08 PM »
Unless the way they fell 14' into a culvert was they got knocked in there by a passing vehicle.   :eusa_think:

Still a long way from the original story.
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Offline dprather

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2017, 03:52:54 PM »
Hold it...isn't far West Texas very near to Roswell?

At this point, it is just as likely that aliens dun it as we are to get a full and complete accounting.  This is probably the only forum that is still tracking the story.

I was (and remain) concerned that, someday, there will be a sizable and violent incident involving border-crossing illegals in the Bend area that will shatter a lot of our calm.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline mule ears

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2017, 04:14:44 PM »
Hold it...isn't far West Texas very near to Roswell?

At this point, it is just as likely that aliens dun it as we are to get a full and complete accounting.  This is probably the only forum that is still tracking the story.

I was (and remain) concerned that, someday, there will be a sizable and violent incident involving border-crossing illegals in the Bend area that will shatter a lot of our calm.
Has it happened anywhere else along the border?  If it does happen I hope it's not BP violence on the crossers

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temperatures exceed 100 degrees F
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Offline marufo

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2017, 06:50:16 PM »
Quote
    I was (and remain) concerned that, someday, there will be a sizable and violent incident involving border-crossing illegals in the Bend area that will shatter a lot of our calm.

Has it happened anywhere else along the border?  If it does happen I hope it's not BP violence on the crossers
Quote
Sixteen-year old Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez was walking near the U.S.-Mexico border in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico to meet his brother for a late-night snack when he was fatally shot by U.S. Border Patrol agents. An autopsy later showed the body of the teenager had been riddled with 10 bullets that had entered his back and head. Mexican officials also said it seemed there were two agents who shot at least 14 times. More than a year later, the U.S. government has yet to issue a public explanation of what happened, or to release stationary video footage, except to allege that he was part of a group throwing rocks at Border Patrol agents who were up on a hill, behind the 60-foot tall border fence

...A chief concern presented to the U.N. Human Rights Committee has been the rash of lethal use-of-force incidents at the border, including the death of Elena Rodriguez. Since January 2010, at least 28 civilians have died following an encounter with U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP)personnel; 27 = died as the result of use of force. These deaths include numerous cases of individuals being shot in the back, across international borders, and in response to alleged rock throwing. One-third of the deaths are of U.S. citizens and one-third of minors, including three boys aged 15, 16 and 17, who were fatally shot while standing on the Mexican side of the border.

CBPs fundamental lack of oversight, accountability and transparency has created a culture of impunity for agents who violate agency policy or their domestic and international legal obligations. In addition, Border Patrol rejected some core changes to its use-of-force policies recommended by national law-enforcement experts at the Police Executive Research Forum (PERF), including how to respond to rock and vehicular assaults, and has refused to release those recommendations publicly.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/human-rights/why-us-border-patrol-shooting-rock-throwing-teenagers

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Offline mule ears

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2017, 07:01:02 PM »
Quote
    I was (and remain) concerned that, someday, there will be a sizable and violent incident involving border-crossing illegals in the Bend area that will shatter a lot of our calm.

Has it happened anywhere else along the border?  If it does happen I hope it's not BP violence on the crossers
Quote
Sixteen-year old Jose Antonio Elena Rodriguez was walking near the U.S.-Mexico border in Nogales, Sonora, Mexico to meet his brother for a late-night snack when he was fatally shot by U.S. Border Patrol agents. An autopsy later showed the body of the teenager had been riddled with 10 bullets that had entered his back and head. Mexican officials also said it seemed there were two agents who shot at least 14 times. More than a year later, the U.S. government has yet to issue a public explanation of what happened, or to release stationary video footage, except to allege that he was part of a group throwing rocks at Border Patrol agents who were up on a hill, behind the 60-foot tall border fence

...A chief concern presented to the U.N. Human Rights Committee has been the rash of lethal use-of-force incidents at the border, including the death of Elena Rodriguez. Since January 2010, at least 28 civilians have died following an encounter with U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP)personnel; 27 = died as the result of use of force. These deaths include numerous cases of individuals being shot in the back, across international borders, and in response to alleged rock throwing. One-third of the deaths are of U.S. citizens and one-third of minors, including three boys aged 15, 16 and 17, who were fatally shot while standing on the Mexican side of the border.

CBPs fundamental lack of oversight, accountability and transparency has created a culture of impunity for agents who violate agency policy or their domestic and international legal obligations. In addition, Border Patrol rejected some core changes to its use-of-force policies recommended by national law-enforcement experts at the Police Executive Research Forum (PERF), including how to respond to rock and vehicular assaults, and has refused to release those recommendations publicly.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/human-rights/why-us-border-patrol-shooting-rock-throwing-teenagers
That's what I'm talking about

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Offline elhombre

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #43 on: December 02, 2017, 08:28:50 AM »
Yes, the border is a dangerous place.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/14-year-old-colleyville-heritage-student-killed-in-crash



Funny the VIDEO news report doesn't mention the drunk killer was an illegal.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 09:20:37 AM by elhombre »
For 2 years the Fake News Media, Obama's FBI, CIA & DOJ, and Swamp dwelling Politicians COLLUDED, Illegally Spied,and LIED to America about POTUS in order to overturn an election

All the while demanding censorship and removal of opposition Conservative "hate speech" voices.  Globalists Hate Freedom

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Offline presidio

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #44 on: December 02, 2017, 10:17:45 AM »
Yes, the border is a dangerous place.

http://www.fox4news.com/news/14-year-old-colleyville-heritage-student-killed-in-crash



Funny the VIDEO news report doesn't mention the drunk killer was an illegal.

The video at the link above (not the video posted here) specifically says the driver was an illegal. The text at that same link also makes that clear: "The U.S. Department of Immigration and Customs Enforcement also has an immigration hold on Chaparro-Saenz, so he has no bond."

Since the second video is from a different station, I guess you'd have to ask the first station why they omitted a fact.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 10:24:46 AM by presidio »
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

 


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