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Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region

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Offline dprather

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #90 on: April 05, 2018, 10:43:00 PM »
Another thread that never dies...

I appreciate the on-going up-dating...
Another thread that never dies...

Yep, and the ongoing lack of real information only fuels endless speculation.

I see that logical, opposing views are not necessarily welcomed here. You can always request that the thread be closed due to new information.

Yo, Rocketman.  Your tone suggests that you might have misread my intention.  I did not mean what you took me to mean.  In any event, I apologize.  I continue to enjoy this thread and all additions to it, including yours.

I started this thread with a question (based on sensational early reporting).  The thread had taken added life, I believe, because of the curious absence of timely explanations.  As this absence of closure from the powers that be continues, I am left to wonder if (i) "They" know, but don't want us to know, or if (ii) "They" don't know, and don't want us to know that they don't know.
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline presidio

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #91 on: April 06, 2018, 11:37:42 AM »
I see that logical, opposing views are not necessarily welcomed here. You can always request that the thread be closed due to new information.

Quite the contrary.

There are many opposing views expressed on this board, and considerable opinion and debate.

Serious discord, as in ad hominem attacks, are extremely rare and refreshingly absent considering the size and activity level of this board. Equally importantly, I am not aware there ever has been an example of Godwin's Law (which occurs on other public forums) seen here.

Some of that is prevented by moderators, but it more is the result of respectful dialogue and interaction, regardless of agreement (or otherwise) between commenters.

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<  presidio  >
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

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Offline rocketman

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #92 on: April 06, 2018, 06:02:01 PM »
Apology accepted DP, and I will go with (ii). I also agree that this forum is among the most civilized on the interwebz. I know you have posted your thoughts on the BP officers' use of flashlights Presidio, and your reply was mostly correct and accurate. I was totally speculating, just like the rest of us. However, the interview with a first responder LEO seems like it should be fairly true and factual, so I simply posted my opinion based on new and plausible information. I guess I was hoping for some dialogue regarding my flashlight theory. Instead it seemed like I was simply dismissed like another idiot asking about how much water to bring on the Window Trail.

Peace fellas.
Making ice cubes FROM THE SUN!!!

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Offline Casa Grande

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #93 on: April 06, 2018, 08:16:41 PM »



I see that logical, opposing views are not necessarily welcomed here. You can always request that the thread be closed due to new information.


Whoa there fella.   I'm not sure where you got that idea from but this very thread proves that wrong.

I have some pretty strong political views as those who know me understand,  but many of those fine folks on the opposing side of my politics can be found here and I happen to think very highly of them. 

I take great pride in knowing the first amendment is alive and well here my friends.   Say what you want,  just try real hard to be respectful. 

Just know, your right to speak does not forfeit anyone else's right to reply in kind.

sent from my Note 8 using the Big Bend Chat mobile app


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Offline dprather

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #94 on: April 06, 2018, 08:27:09 PM »

Just try real hard to be respectful. 


Not hard at all when we realize that the primary function of BBC is to enhance and facilitate enjoyment of our beloved Bend. 
Leave "quit" at the car.  Embrace the trail as your friend.  Expect to enjoy yourself, and to be amazed.

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Offline presidio

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #95 on: April 07, 2018, 12:10:32 AM »
I was totally speculating, just like the rest of us. However, the interview with a first responder LEO seems like it should be fairly true and factual, so I simply posted my opinion based on new and plausible information. I guess I was hoping for some dialogue regarding my flashlight theory. Instead it seemed like I was simply dismissed like another idiot asking about how much water to bring on the Window Trail.

From my perspective, the reason you did not immediately get feedback is that your observations were similar to prior comments. But, since you were expecting dialogue, let's do some.

From your earlier post:

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This leads me to believe that perhaps they didn't have their flashlights blazing, that perhaps they were attempting to use the element of surprise (as they are likely trained to do) under circumstances where stealth is necessary.

As I have opined earlier, I just don't see them not using light. It's difficult to navigate without some ability to see plus, since they were on or immediately adjacent to the interstate, their presence there was not a secret as they (and especially their vehicle) would be illuminated by passing traffic. Additionally, if the BP is going to catch someone, irrespective of what the suspects may be doing, they have to be able to move faster in order to catch up. You cannot overtake someone in the dark by moving at the same pace. Moving faster simply cannot be done without light and it's dangerous to do alone (day or night). When tracking someone, the tracker must be focused on the trail and they give up valuable time if they have to also look about to ensure their own safety. That problem is solved by having one or more other agents who do the "protective" observation while the tracker tracks.

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The agents' union remains convinced it was murder. A union official, not authorized to speak publicly on the matter, noted the agents were hurt while investigating possible smuggling activity in the culvert.
    "They both know there's a culvert there, and they both fell off? It doesn't make sense," said the union rep.

I would agree with the union rep that the agents (all of them) know about things like culverts since they are known transiting routes. They didn't forget and stumble. It is a core requirement of their job to KNOW these things.

I also agree in principal that it probably was a homicide, but not for the reason the union desperately wants to believe. Among the very few pieces of usable information leaking out about this incident is the seemingly reliable reports of there being no evidence of the presence of anyone at the site other than the agents. If it's not an accident, as the union maintains, then it has to be a deliberate act. Following that logic, if there's no evidence of a third party being present, and it's not an accident, then it only can be....

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In the end, its just a theory. I hope we learn the truth some day, but I doubt the official record will resemble it. There are still many unknowns, like the presence of painkillers and the mechanics of how it all went down. Green-on-green is still a possibility with the grappling theory, but I think they just walked/ran off the culvert with no flashlights. Which begs the question, what was the location and condition of those flashlights?

The info on this incident nearly has dried up. The preferred narrative has lost traction due to lack of evidence, so the political agenda cannot be sustained. The agency would be loathe to have green on green proven (but in the end they would not be able to prevent such revelation). Given the stated investigatory effort (several hundred interviews) which has occurred, yet produced zero information (according to reports) it begs the question as to whether incompetence is involved (the FBI has gotten several black eyes recently for sloppy work), cover-up, or the wrong questions are being asked of the wrong people. None of it bodes well for the truth.

I really don't see flashlights being part of the equation (except perhaps as a blunt instrument of assault). A DNA swab would have answered that question, but probably wasn't done.

Likely, the case will fester and quietly be pushed aside until the victim's family files suit and rattles enough cages. While the media no longer functions as the impartial watchdog of the past, asking agencies and individuals some tough questions which they refuse to answer always shines an uncomfortable light on the situation. It just doesn't look good for anyone not to respond or attempt to hide behind lame defenses.
_____________
<  presidio  >
_____________
Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

 


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