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Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2018, 02:13:33 PM »
As best as I can remember, whatever occurred, occurred in the middle of the night. IIRC, the agents were on foot, responding to a signal from a triggered movement sensor and they felt certain the trigger had been human.  One possibility (just a possibility - I have no corroborating evidence) is that the agents were running pell-mell (possibly either chasing or fleeing something or both) in the desert and fell into a steep culvert that they'd failed to see in the dark of night. The injuries might have occurred from a long fall ending in contact with one or more hard objects. 

Edit: Just found this, from the local TV station report: The release also stated that evidence was developed that a Border Patrol dispatcher spoke with the injured partner of Martinez by telephone. During the call, while disoriented and unsure of his location, Martinez' partner stated that he and Martinez were hurt. The partner also made a statement to the effect of, "We ran into a culvert," "I ran into a culvert," or "I think I ran into a culvert." The dispatcher also wrote into a Border Patrol log, "[He] thinks they (both agents) ran into a culvert."

http://www.newswest9.com/story/37453323/el-paso-fbi-releases-findings-regarding-investigation-into-the-death-of-border-patrol-agent

Just floating another possibility.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 02:56:18 PM by House Made of Dawn »
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2018, 02:14:51 PM »
It would be interesting to check the disposition of the moon and cloud cover that night.
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline House Made of Dawn

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2018, 02:31:35 PM »
Moon phase: evening of November 18, 2017.  New moon.  Incident occurred just before midnight.

http://www.moongiant.com/phase/11/18/2017

Edit: Some of you may be better than me at finding historical weather data. The one reliable report I've found so far indicates that clouds moved in over the Van Horn area during the afternoon and evening of November 18.  So.....moonless night with cloudy skies. Pretty dark by 11pm - as long as you're away from city lights reflecting off of the clouds.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 03:03:41 PM by House Made of Dawn »
"The trick, William Potter, is not minding that it hurts."

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Offline mediopelo

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #78 on: February 11, 2018, 03:24:23 PM »
There have been all sorts of conflicting reports in the news, including whether there was radio traffic about sensor readouts or even whether there was any radio traffic at all (one news story says that the alarm came through a phone call from the injured agent to his girlfriend), but it seems to be undisputed fact that the culvert where the two were found was on the frontage road, impossibly far to have been hit by a vehicle on the interstate, and that their weapons and equipment were not taken and their vehicles were undisturbed.

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Offline presidio

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Re: Border Patrol Gunfight in the Big Bend Region
« Reply #79 on: February 11, 2018, 07:10:06 PM »
There have been all sorts of conflicting reports in the news, including whether there was radio traffic about sensor readouts or even whether there was any radio traffic at all (one news story says that the alarm came through a phone call from the injured agent to his girlfriend), but it seems to be undisputed fact that the culvert where the two were found was on the frontage road, impossibly far to have been hit by a vehicle on the interstate, and that their weapons and equipment were not taken and their vehicles were undisturbed.

Since the facts released to date, and the autopsy, now apparently excludes assault by unknown persons, that leaves two possibilities:

a) an accidental fall into the arroyo (whether chasing someone or not).
b) a green-on-green incident.

An accidental fall by both seems a bit of a stretch. If it was a cloudy, moonless night, it is very unlikely they were running  (or even walking) over rough ground in complete darkness, even if chasing someone. It would be interesting to learn whether anyone searched for or observed fresh tracks of third parties...but there's been no claims of a third party on site other than the self-serving ones by the union and no evidence produced showing there was a third party.

It would be very difficult to navigate across even relatively flat ground without light (stepping/tripping on rocks, running into vegetation, etc.) and it does not seem logical that someone would do that. Yeah, using a light makes you a target, but thrashing around in the dark is very inefficient and a suspect simply isn't going to be located on a moonless night without light.

So, if it isn't an accident....
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Wendell (Garret Dillahunt): It's a mess, ain't it, sheriff?
Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones): If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.
--No Country for Old Men (2007)

 


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